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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>The Republic</span></b><span
style=3D'color:black'> <a name=3D2></a><br>
<br>
By Plato <a name=3D3></a><br>
<br>
Written 360 B.C.E <br>
<br>
Translated by Benjamin Jowett<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>

<div align=3Dcenter>

<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"60%"
 style=3D'width:60.0%;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt'>
 <tr style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
  <td width=3D"30%" nowrap valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:30.0%;padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
  </td>
  <td nowrap valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span
  style=3D'color:black'><br>
  <br>
  </span><b><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Book X (excerpt)</=
span></b><span
  style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D"30%" nowrap valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:30.0%;padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span
  style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
<a name=3Dstart></a><a name=3D10></a><a name=3D11></a><b style=3D'mso-bidi-=
font-weight:
normal'>The characters in the dialogue are Socrates and Glaucon.<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>Socrates speaks first and quickly =
moves
to his usual tactic of leading Glaucon through a line of argument while
pretending to be na&iuml;ve and ignorant himself.<br style=3D'mso-special-c=
haracter:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-bre=
ak'>
<![endif]></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Socrates:<br>
Of he many excellences which I perceive in the order of our State, <a name=
=3D12></a>there
is none which upon reflection pleases me better than the rule about <a name=
=3D13></a>poetry.
<a name=3D14></a><br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-bre=
ak'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Glacon:<br>
To what do you refer? <a name=3D15></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Socrates:<br>
To the rejection of imitative poetry, which certainly ought not to <a name=
=3D16></a>be
received; as I see far more clearly now that the parts of the soul have <a
name=3D17></a>been distinguished. <a name=3D18></a><br>
<br>
What do you mean? <a name=3D19></a><br>
Speaking in confidence, for I should not like to have my words repeated <a
name=3D20></a>to the tragedians and the rest of the imitative tribe --but I=
 do
not mind <a name=3D21></a>saying to you, that all poetical imitations are r=
uinous
to the understanding <a name=3D22></a>of the hearers, and that the knowledg=
e of
their true nature is the only <a name=3D23></a>antidote to them. <a name=3D=
24></a><br>
<br>
Explain the purport of your remark. <a name=3D25></a><br>
Well, I will tell you, although I have always from my earliest youth <a
name=3D26></a>had an awe and love of Homer, which even now makes the words =
falter
on <a name=3D27></a>my lips, for he is the great captain and teacher of the=
 whole
of that charming <a name=3D28></a>tragic company; but a man is not to be
reverenced more than the truth, <a name=3D29></a>and therefore I will speak=
 out. <a
name=3D30></a><br>
<br>
Very good, he said. <a name=3D31></a><br>
Listen to me then, or rather, answer me. <a name=3D32></a><br>
Put your question. <a name=3D33></a><br>
Can you tell me what imitation is? for I really do not <a name=3D34></a>kno=
w. <a
name=3D35></a><br>
A likely thing, then, that I should know. <a name=3D36></a><br>
Why not? for the duller eye may often see a thing sooner than the <a name=
=3D37></a>keener.
<a name=3D38></a><br>
<br>
Very true, he said; but in your presence, even if I had any faint <a name=
=3D39></a>notion,
I could not muster courage to utter it. Will you enquire <a name=3D40></a>y=
ourself?
<a name=3D41></a><br>
<br>
Well then, shall we begin the enquiry in our usual manner: Whenever <a name=
=3D42></a>a
number of individuals have a common name, we assume them to have also <a
name=3D43></a>a corresponding idea or form. Do you understand me? <a name=
=3D44></a><br>
<br>
I do. <a name=3D45></a><br>
Let us take any common instance; there are beds and tables in the world <a
name=3D46></a>--plenty of them, are there not? <a name=3D47></a><br>
<br>
Yes. <a name=3D48></a><br>
But there are only two ideas or forms of them --one the idea of a bed, <a
name=3D49></a>the other of a table. <a name=3D50></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D51></a><br>
And the maker of either of them makes a bed or he makes a table for <a name=
=3D52></a>our
use, in accordance with the idea --that is our way of speaking in this <a
name=3D53></a>and similar instances --but no artificer makes the ideas
themselves: how <a name=3D54></a>could he? <a name=3D55></a><br>
<br>
Impossible. <a name=3D56></a><br>
And there is another artist, --I should like to know what you would <a name=
=3D57></a>say
of him. <a name=3D58></a><br>
<br>
Who is he? <a name=3D59></a><br>
One who is the maker of all the works of all other <a name=3D60></a>workmen=
. <a
name=3D61></a><br>
What an extraordinary man! <a name=3D62></a><br>
Wait a little, and there will be more reason for your saying so. For <a
name=3D63></a>this is he who is able to make not only vessels of every kind=
, but
plants <a name=3D64></a>and animals, himself and all other things --the ear=
th and
heaven, and the <a name=3D65></a>things which are in heaven or under the ea=
rth;
he makes the gods <a name=3D66></a>also. <a name=3D67></a><br>
<br>
He must be a wizard and no mistake. <a name=3D68></a><br>
Oh! you are incredulous, are you? Do you mean that there is no such <a name=
=3D69></a>maker
or creator, or that in one sense there might be a maker of all these <a
name=3D70></a>things but in another not? Do you see that there is a way in =
which
you <a name=3D71></a>could make them all yourself? <a name=3D72></a><br>
<br>
What way? <a name=3D73></a><br>
An easy way enough; or rather, there are many ways in which the feat <a
name=3D74></a>might be quickly and easily accomplished, none quicker than t=
hat of
turning <a name=3D75></a>a mirror round and round --you would soon enough m=
ake
the sun and the heavens, <a name=3D76></a>and the earth and yourself, and o=
ther
animals and plants, and all the, <a name=3D77></a>other things of which we =
were
just now speaking, in the <a name=3D78></a>mirror. <a name=3D79></a><br>
<br>
Yes, he said; but they would be appearances <a name=3D80></a>only. <a name=
=3D81></a><br>
Very good, I said, you are coming to the point now. And the painter <a name=
=3D82></a>too
is, as I conceive, just such another --a creator of appearances, is <a name=
=3D83></a>he
not? <a name=3D84></a><br>
<br>
Of course. <a name=3D85></a><br>
But then I suppose you will say that what he creates is untrue. And <a name=
=3D86></a>yet
there is a sense in which the painter also creates a <a name=3D87></a>bed? =
<a
name=3D88></a><br>
<br>
Yes, he said, but not a real bed. <a name=3D89></a><br>
And what of the maker of the bed? Were you not saying that he too makes, <a
name=3D90></a>not the idea which, according to our view, is the essence of =
the
bed, but <a name=3D91></a>only a particular bed? <a name=3D92></a><br>
<br>
Yes, I did. <a name=3D93></a><br>
Then if he does not make that which exists he cannot make true existence, <a
name=3D94></a>but only some semblance of existence; and if any one were to =
say
that the <a name=3D95></a>work of the maker of the bed, or of any other wor=
kman,
has real existence, <a name=3D96></a>he could hardly be supposed to be spea=
king
the truth. <a name=3D97></a><br>
<br>
At any rate, he replied, philosophers would say that he was not <a name=3D9=
8></a>speaking
the truth. <a name=3D99></a><br>
<br>
No wonder, then, that his work too is an indistinct expression <a name=3D10=
0></a>of
truth. <a name=3D101></a><br>
<br>
No wonder. <a name=3D102></a><br>
Suppose now that by the light of the examples just offered we enquire <a
name=3D103></a>who this imitator is? <a name=3D104></a><br>
<br>
If you please. <a name=3D105></a><br>
Well then, here are three beds: one existing in nature, which is made <a
name=3D106></a>by God, as I think that we may say --for no one else can be =
the <a
name=3D107></a>maker? <a name=3D108></a><br>
<br>
No. <a name=3D109></a><br>
There is another which is the work of the carpenter? <a name=3D110></a><br>
Yes. <a name=3D111></a><br>
And the work of the painter is a third? <a name=3D112></a><br>
Yes. <a name=3D113></a><br>
Beds, then, are of three kinds, and there are three artists who superintend=
 <a
name=3D114></a>them: God, the maker of the bed, and the painter? <a name=3D=
115></a><br>
<br>
Yes, there are three of them. <a name=3D116></a><br>
God, whether from choice or from necessity, made one bed in nature <a name=
=3D117></a>and
one only; two or more such ideal beds neither ever have been nor ever <a
name=3D118></a>will be made by God. <a name=3D119></a><br>
<br>
Why is that? <a name=3D120></a><br>
Because even if He had made but two, a third would still appear behind <a
name=3D121></a>them which both of them would have for their idea, and that =
would
be the <a name=3D122></a>ideal bed and the two others. <a name=3D123></a><b=
r>
<br>
Very true, he said. <a name=3D124></a><br>
God knew this, and He desired to be the real maker of a real bed, not <a
name=3D125></a>a particular maker of a particular bed, and therefore He cre=
ated a
bed <a name=3D126></a>which is essentially and by nature one only. <a name=
=3D127></a><br>
<br>
So we believe. <a name=3D128></a><br>
Shall we, then, speak of Him as the natural author or maker of the <a name=
=3D129></a>bed?
<a name=3D130></a><br>
<br>
Yes, he replied; inasmuch as by the natural process of creation <a name=3D1=
31></a>He
is the author of this and of all other things. <a name=3D132></a><br>
<br>
And what shall we say of the carpenter --is not he also the maker <a name=
=3D133></a>of
the bed? <a name=3D134></a><br>
<br>
Yes. <a name=3D135></a><br>
But would you call the painter a creator and maker? <a name=3D136></a><br>
Certainly not. <a name=3D137></a><br>
Yet if he is not the maker, what is he in relation to the <a name=3D138></a=
>bed? <a
name=3D139></a><br>
I think, he said, that we may fairly designate him as the imitator <a name=
=3D140></a>of
that which the others make. <a name=3D141></a><br>
<br>
Good, I said; then you call him who is third in the descent from <a name=3D=
142></a>nature
an imitator? <a name=3D143></a><br>
<br>
Certainly, he said. <a name=3D144></a><br>
And the tragic poet is an imitator, and therefore, like all other imitators=
, <a
name=3D145></a>he is thrice removed from the king and from the truth? <a
name=3D146></a><br>
<br>
That appears to be so. <a name=3D147></a><br>
Then about the imitator we are agreed. And what about the painter? <a name=
=3D148></a>--I
would like to know whether he may be thought to imitate that which <a name=
=3D149></a>originally
exists in nature, or only the creations of <a name=3D150></a>artists? <a
name=3D151></a><br>
<br>
The latter. <a name=3D152></a><br>
As they are or as they appear? You have still to determine <a name=3D153></=
a>this.
<a name=3D154></a><br>
What do you mean? <a name=3D155></a><br>
I mean, that you may look at a bed from different points of view, obliquely=
 <a
name=3D156></a>or directly or from any other point of view, and the bed will
appear different, <a name=3D157></a>but there is no difference in reality. =
And
the same of all <a name=3D158></a>things. <a name=3D159></a><br>
<br>
Yes, he said, the difference is only apparent. <a name=3D160></a><br>
Now let me ask you another question: Which is the art of painting designed =
<a
name=3D161></a>to be --an imitation of things as they are, or as they appea=
r --of
appearance <a name=3D162></a>or of reality? <a name=3D163></a><br>
<br>
Of appearance. <a name=3D164></a><br>
Then the imitator, I said, is a long way off the truth, and can do <a name=
=3D165></a>all
things because he lightly touches on a small part of them, and that <a
name=3D166></a>part an image. For example: A painter will paint a cobbler,
carpenter, <a name=3D167></a>or any other artist, though he knows nothing of
their arts; and, if he <a name=3D168></a>is a good artist, he may deceive
children or simple persons, when he shows <a name=3D169></a>them his pictur=
e of a
carpenter from a distance, and they will fancy that <a name=3D170></a>they =
are
looking at a real carpenter. <a name=3D171></a><br>
<br>
Certainly. <a name=3D172></a><br>
And whenever any one informs us that he has found a man knows all the <a
name=3D173></a>arts, and all things else that anybody knows, and every sing=
le
thing with <a name=3D174></a>a higher degree of accuracy than any other man
--whoever tells us this, <a name=3D175></a>I think that we can only imagine=
 to be
a simple creature who is likely <a name=3D176></a>to have been deceived by =
some
wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he <a name=3D177></a>thought all-know=
ing,
because he himself was unable to analyse the nature <a name=3D178></a>of
knowledge and ignorance and imitation. <a name=3D179></a><br>
<br>
Most true. <a name=3D180></a><br>
And so, when we hear persons saying that the tragedians, and Homer, <a
name=3D181></a>who is at their head, know all the arts and all things human,
virtue as <a name=3D182></a>well as vice, and divine things too, for that t=
he
good poet cannot compose <a name=3D183></a>well unless he knows his subject=
, and
that he who has not this knowledge <a name=3D184></a>can never be a poet, we
ought to consider whether here also there may not <a name=3D185></a>be a si=
milar
illusion. Perhaps they may have come across imitators and <a name=3D186></a=
>been
deceived by them; they may not have remembered when they saw their <a name=
=3D187></a>works
that these were but imitations thrice removed from the truth, and <a name=
=3D188></a>could
easily be made without any knowledge of the truth, because they are <a
name=3D189></a>appearances only and not realities? Or, after all, they may =
be in
the right, <a name=3D190></a>and poets do really know the things about whic=
h they
seem to the many to <a name=3D191></a>speak so well? <a name=3D192></a><br>
<br>
The question, he said, should by all means be <a name=3D193></a>considered.=
 <a
name=3D194></a><br>
Now do you suppose that if a person were able to make the original <a name=
=3D195></a>as
well as the image, he would seriously devote himself to the image-making <a
name=3D196></a>branch? Would he allow imitation to be the ruling principle =
of his
life, <a name=3D197></a>as if he had nothing higher in him? <a name=3D198><=
/a><br>
<br>
I should say not. <a name=3D199></a><br>
The real artist, who knew what he was imitating, would be interested <a
name=3D200></a>in realities and not in imitations; and would desire to leav=
e as
memorials <a name=3D201></a>of himself works many and fair; and, instead of=
 being
the author of encomiums, <a name=3D202></a>he would prefer to be the theme =
of
them. <a name=3D203></a><br>
<br>
Yes, he said, that would be to him a source of much greater honour <a name=
=3D204></a>and
profit. <a name=3D205></a><br>
<br>
Then, I said, we must put a question to Homer; not about medicine, <a name=
=3D206></a>or
any of the arts to which his poems only incidentally refer: we are not <a
name=3D207></a>going to ask him, or any other poet, whether he has cured pa=
tients
like <a name=3D208></a>Asclepius, or left behind him a school of medicine s=
uch as
the Asclepiads <a name=3D209></a>were, or whether he only talks about medic=
ine
and other arts at second <a name=3D210></a>hand; but we have a right to know
respecting military tactics, politics, <a name=3D211></a>education, which a=
re the
chiefest and noblest subjects of his poems, and <a name=3D212></a>we may fa=
irly
ask him about them. 'Friend Homer,' then we say to him, 'if <a name=3D213><=
/a>you
are only in the second remove from truth in what you say of virtue, <a
name=3D214></a>and not in the third --not an image maker or imitator --and =
if you
are <a name=3D215></a>able to discern what pursuits make men better or wors=
e in
private or public <a name=3D216></a>life, tell us what State was ever better
governed by your help? The good <a name=3D217></a>order of Lacedaemon is du=
e to Lycurgus,
and many other cities great and <a name=3D218></a>small have been similarly
benefited by others; but who says that you have <a name=3D219></a>been a go=
od
legislator to them and have done them any good? <st1:country-region w:st=3D=
"on">Italy</st1:country-region>
and <st1:State w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Sicily</st1:place></st1:S=
tate> <a
name=3D220></a>boast of Charondas, and there is Solon who is renowned among=
 us;
but what <a name=3D221></a>city has anything to say about you?' Is there an=
y city
which he might <a name=3D222></a>name? <a name=3D223></a><br>
<br>
I think not, said Glaucon; not even the Homerids themselves pretend <a
name=3D224></a>that he was a legislator. <a name=3D225></a><br>
<br>
Well, but is there any war on record which was carried on successfully <a
name=3D226></a>by him, or aided by his counsels, when he was alive? <a name=
=3D227></a><br>
<br>
There is not. <a name=3D228></a><br>
Or is there any invention of his, applicable to the arts or to human <a
name=3D229></a>life, such as Thales the Milesian or Anacharsis the Scythian=
, and
other <a name=3D230></a>ingenious men have conceived, which is attributed t=
o <a
name=3D231></a>him? <a name=3D232></a><br>
<br>
There is absolutely nothing of the kind. <a name=3D233></a><br>
But, if Homer never did any public service, was he privately a guide <a
name=3D234></a>or teacher of any? Had he in his lifetime friends who loved =
to
associate <a name=3D235></a>with him, and who handed down to posterity an H=
omeric
way of life, such <a name=3D236></a>as was established by Pythagoras who wa=
s so
greatly beloved for his wisdom, <a name=3D237></a>and whose followers are t=
o this
day quite celebrated for the order which <a name=3D238></a>was named after =
him? <a
name=3D239></a><br>
<br>
Nothing of the kind is recorded of him. For surely, Socrates, Creophylus, <a
name=3D240></a>the companion of Homer, that child of flesh, whose name alwa=
ys
makes us <a name=3D241></a>laugh, might be more justly ridiculed for his
stupidity, if, as is said, <a name=3D242></a>Homer was greatly neglected by=
 him
and others in his own day when he was <a name=3D243></a>alive? <a name=3D24=
4></a><br>
<br>
Yes, I replied, that is the tradition. But can you imagine, Glaucon, <a
name=3D245></a>that if Homer had really been able to educate and improve ma=
nkind
--if <a name=3D246></a>he had possessed knowledge and not been a mere imita=
tor
--can you imagine, <a name=3D247></a>I say, that he would not have had many
followers, and been honoured and <a name=3D248></a>loved by them? Protagora=
s of
Abdera, and Prodicus of Ceos, and a host of <a name=3D249></a>others, have =
only
to whisper to their contemporaries: 'You will never be <a name=3D250></a>ab=
le to
manage either your own house or your own State until you appoint <a name=3D=
251></a>us
to be your ministers of education' --and this ingenious device of theirs <a
name=3D252></a>has such an effect in making them love them that their compa=
nions
all but <a name=3D253></a>carry them about on their shoulders. And is it
conceivable that the contemporaries <a name=3D254></a>of Homer, or again of
Hesiod, would have allowed either of them to go about <a name=3D255></a>as
rhapsodists, if they had really been able to make mankind virtuous? <a
name=3D256></a>Would they not have been as unwilling to part with them as w=
ith
gold, and <a name=3D257></a>have compelled them to stay at home with them? =
Or, if
the master would <a name=3D258></a>not stay, then the disciples would have
followed him about everywhere, <a name=3D259></a>until they had got educati=
on
enough? <a name=3D260></a><br>
<br>
Yes, Socrates, that, I think, is quite true. <a name=3D261></a><br>
Then must we not infer that all these poetical individuals, beginning <a
name=3D262></a>with Homer, are only imitators; they copy images of virtue a=
nd the
like, <a name=3D263></a>but the truth they never reach? The poet is like a
painter who, as we have <a name=3D264></a>already observed, will make a lik=
eness
of a cobbler though he understands <a name=3D265></a>nothing of cobbling; a=
nd his
picture is good enough for those who know <a name=3D266></a>no more than he=
 does,
and judge only by colours and <a name=3D267></a>figures. <a name=3D268></a>=
<br>
<br>
Quite so. <a name=3D269></a><br>
In like manner the poet with his words and phrases may be said to lay <a
name=3D270></a>on the colours of the several arts, himself understanding th=
eir
nature <a name=3D271></a>only enough to imitate them; and other people, who=
 are
as ignorant as he <a name=3D272></a>is, and judge only from his words, imag=
ine
that if he speaks of cobbling, <a name=3D273></a>or of military tactics, or=
 of
anything else, in metre and harmony and rhythm, <a name=3D274></a>he speaks=
 very
well --such is the sweet influence which melody and rhythm <a name=3D275></=
a>by
nature have. And I think that you must have observed again and again <a
name=3D276></a>what a poor appearance the tales of poets make when stripped=
 of
the colours <a name=3D277></a>which music puts upon them, and recited in si=
mple
prose. <a name=3D278></a><br>
<br>
Yes, he said. <a name=3D279></a><br>
They are like faces which were never really beautiful, but only blooming; <a
name=3D280></a>and now the bloom of youth has passed away from them? <a nam=
e=3D281></a><br>
<br>
Exactly. <a name=3D282></a><br>
Here is another point: The imitator or maker of the image knows nothing <a
name=3D283></a>of true existence; he knows appearances only. Am I not <a
name=3D284></a>right? <a name=3D285></a><br>
<br>
Yes. <a name=3D286></a><br>
Then let us have a clear understanding, and not be satisfied with half <a
name=3D287></a>an explanation. <a name=3D288></a><br>
<br>
Proceed. <a name=3D289></a><br>
Of the painter we say that he will paint reins, and he will paint a <a
name=3D290></a>bit? <a name=3D291></a><br>
<br>
Yes. <a name=3D292></a><br>
And the worker in leather and brass will make them? <a name=3D293></a><br>
Certainly. <a name=3D294></a><br>
But does the painter know the right form of the bit and reins? Nay, <a
name=3D295></a>hardly even the workers in brass and leather who make them; =
only
the horseman <a name=3D296></a>who knows how to use them --he knows their r=
ight
form. <a name=3D297></a><br>
<br>
Most true. <a name=3D298></a><br>
And may we not say the same of all things? <a name=3D299></a><br>
What? <a name=3D300></a><br>
That there are three arts which are concerned with all things: one <a name=
=3D301></a>which
uses, another which makes, a third which imitates <a name=3D302></a>them? <a
name=3D303></a><br>
<br>
Yes. <a name=3D304></a><br>
And the excellence or beauty or truth of every structure, animate or <a
name=3D305></a>inanimate, and of every action of man, is relative to the us=
e for
which <a name=3D306></a>nature or the artist has intended them. <a name=3D3=
07></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D308></a><br>
Then the user of them must have the greatest experience of them, and <a
name=3D309></a>he must indicate to the maker the good or bad qualities which
develop themselves <a name=3D310></a>in use; for example, the flute-player =
will
tell the flute-maker which of <a name=3D311></a>his flutes is satisfactory =
to the
performer; he will tell him how he ought <a name=3D312></a>to make them, an=
d the
other will attend to his instructions? <a name=3D313></a><br>
<br>
Of course. <a name=3D314></a><br>
The one knows and therefore speaks with authority about the goodness <a
name=3D315></a>and badness of flutes, while the other, confiding in him, wi=
ll do
what <a name=3D316></a>he is told by him? <a name=3D317></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D318></a><br>
The instrument is the same, but about the excellence or badness of <a name=
=3D319></a>it
the maker will only attain to a correct belief; and this he will gain <a
name=3D320></a>from him who knows, by talking to him and being compelled to=
 hear
what <a name=3D321></a>he has to say, whereas the user will have knowledge?=
 <a
name=3D322></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D323></a><br>
But will the imitator have either? Will he know from use whether or <a
name=3D324></a>no his drawing is correct or beautiful? Or will he have right
opinion from <a name=3D325></a>being compelled to associate with another who
knows and gives him instructions <a name=3D326></a>about what he should dra=
w? <a
name=3D327></a><br>
<br>
Neither. <a name=3D328></a><br>
Then he will no more have true opinion than he will have knowledge <a name=
=3D329></a>about
the goodness or badness of his imitations? <a name=3D330></a><br>
<br>
I suppose not. <a name=3D331></a><br>
The imitative artist will be in a brilliant state of intelligence about <a
name=3D332></a>his own creations? <a name=3D333></a><br>
<br>
Nay, very much the reverse. <a name=3D334></a><br>
And still he will go on imitating without knowing what makes a thing <a
name=3D335></a>good or bad, and may be expected therefore to imitate only t=
hat
which appears <a name=3D336></a>to be good to the ignorant multitude? <a
name=3D337></a><br>
<br>
Just so. <a name=3D338></a><br>
Thus far then we are pretty well agreed that the imitator has no knowledge =
<a
name=3D339></a>worth mentioning of what he imitates. Imitation is only a ki=
nd of
play <a name=3D340></a>or sport, and the tragic poets, whether they write in
iambic or in Heroic <a name=3D341></a>verse, are imitators in the highest d=
egree?
<a name=3D342></a><br>
<br>
Very true. <a name=3D343></a><br>
And now tell me, I conjure you, has not imitation been shown by us <a name=
=3D344></a>to
be concerned with that which is thrice removed from the <a name=3D345></a>t=
ruth? <a
name=3D346></a><br>
<br>
Certainly. <a name=3D347></a><br>
And what is the faculty in man to which imitation is <a name=3D348></a>addr=
essed?
<a name=3D349></a><br>
What do you mean? <a name=3D350></a><br>
I will explain: The body which is large when seen near, appears small <a
name=3D351></a>when seen at a distance? <a name=3D352></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D353></a><br>
And the same object appears straight when looked at out of the water, <a
name=3D354></a>and crooked when in the water; and the concave becomes conve=
x,
owing to <a name=3D355></a>the illusion about colours to which the sight is
liable. Thus every sort <a name=3D356></a>of confusion is revealed within u=
s; and
this is that weakness of the human <a name=3D357></a>mind on which the art =
of
conjuring and of deceiving by light and shadow <a name=3D358></a>and other
ingenious devices imposes, having an effect upon us like <a name=3D359></a>=
magic.
<a name=3D360></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D361></a><br>
And the arts of measuring and numbering and weighing come to the rescue <a
name=3D362></a>of the human understanding-there is the beauty of them --and=
 the
apparent <a name=3D363></a>greater or less, or more or heavier, no longer h=
ave
the mastery over us, <a name=3D364></a>but give way before calculation and
measure and weight? <a name=3D365></a><br>
<br>
Most true. <a name=3D366></a><br>
And this, surely, must be the work of the calculating and rational <a name=
=3D367></a>principle
in the soul <a name=3D368></a><br>
<br>
To be sure. <a name=3D369></a><br>
And when this principle measures and certifies that some things are <a
name=3D370></a>equal, or that some are greater or less than others, there o=
ccurs
an apparent <a name=3D371></a>contradiction? <a name=3D372></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D373></a><br>
But were we not saying that such a contradiction is the same faculty <a
name=3D374></a>cannot have contrary opinions at the same time about the sam=
e <a
name=3D375></a>thing? <a name=3D376></a><br>
<br>
Very true. <a name=3D377></a><br>
Then that part of the soul which has an opinion contrary to measure <a
name=3D378></a>is not the same with that which has an opinion in accordance=
 with <a
name=3D379></a>measure? <a name=3D380></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D381></a><br>
And the better part of the soul is likely to be that which trusts to <a
name=3D382></a>measure and calculation? <a name=3D383></a><br>
<br>
Certainly. <a name=3D384></a><br>
And that which is opposed to them is one of the inferior principles <a
name=3D385></a>of the soul? <a name=3D386></a><br>
<br>
No doubt. <a name=3D387></a><br>
This was the conclusion at which I was seeking to arrive when I said <a
name=3D388></a>that painting or drawing, and imitation in general, when doi=
ng
their own <a name=3D389></a>proper work, are far removed from truth, and the
companions and friends <a name=3D390></a>and associates of a principle with=
in us
which is equally removed from reason, <a name=3D391></a>and that they have =
no
true or healthy aim. <a name=3D392></a><br>
<br>
Exactly. <a name=3D393></a><br>
The imitative art is an inferior who marries an inferior, and has inferior =
<a
name=3D394></a>offspring. <a name=3D395></a><br>
<br>
Very true. <a name=3D396></a><br>
And is this confined to the sight only, or does it extend to the hearing <a
name=3D397></a>also, relating in fact to what we term poetry? <a name=3D398=
></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
<br>
Probably the same would be true of poetry. <a name=3D399></a><br>
Do not rely, I said, on a probability derived from the analogy of painting;=
 <a
name=3D400></a>but let us examine further and see whether the faculty with =
which
poetical <a name=3D401></a>imitation is concerned is good or bad. <a name=
=3D402></a><br>
<br>
By all means. <a name=3D403></a><br>
We may state the question thus: --Imitation imitates the actions of <a
name=3D404></a>men, whether voluntary or involuntary, on which, as they ima=
gine,
a good <a name=3D405></a>or bad result has ensued, and they rejoice or sorr=
ow
accordingly. Is there <a name=3D406></a>anything more? <a name=3D407></a><b=
r>
<br>
No, there is nothing else. <a name=3D408></a><br>
But in all this variety of circumstances is the man at unity with himself <a
name=3D409></a>--or rather, as in the instance of sight there was confusion=
 and
opposition <a name=3D410></a>in his opinions about the same things, so here=
 also
is there not strife <a name=3D411></a>and inconsistency in his life? Though=
 I
need hardly raise the question <a name=3D412></a>again, for I remember that=
 all
this has been already admitted; and the <a name=3D413></a>soul has been
acknowledged by us to be full of these and ten thousand similar <a name=3D4=
14></a>oppositions
occurring at the same moment? <a name=3D415></a><br>
<br>
And we were right, he said. <a name=3D416></a><br>
Yes, I said, thus far we were right; but there was an omission which <a
name=3D417></a>must now be supplied. <a name=3D418></a><br>
<br>
What was the omission? <a name=3D419></a><br>
Were we not saying that a good man, who has the misfortune to lose <a name=
=3D420></a>his
son or anything else which is most dear to him, will bear the loss <a name=
=3D421></a>with
more equanimity than another? <a name=3D422></a><br>
<br>
Yes. <a name=3D423></a><br>
But will he have no sorrow, or shall we say that although he cannot <a
name=3D424></a>help sorrowing, he will moderate his sorrow? <a name=3D425><=
/a><br>
<br>
The latter, he said, is the truer statement. <a name=3D426></a><br>
Tell me: will he be more likely to struggle and hold out against his <a
name=3D427></a>sorrow when he is seen by his equals, or when he is <a name=
=3D428></a>alone?
<a name=3D429></a><br>
<br>
It will make a great difference whether he is seen or <a name=3D430></a>not=
. <a
name=3D431></a><br>
When he is by himself he will not mind saying or doing many things <a name=
=3D432></a>which
he would be ashamed of any one hearing or seeing him <a name=3D433></a>do? =
<a
name=3D434></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D435></a><br>
There is a principle of law and reason in him which bids him resist, <a
name=3D436></a>as well as a feeling of his misfortune which is forcing him =
to
indulge <a name=3D437></a>his sorrow? <a name=3D438></a><br>
<br>
True. <a name=3D439></a><br>
But when a man is drawn in two opposite directions, to and from the <a
name=3D440></a>same object, this, as we affirm, necessarily implies two dis=
tinct
principles <a name=3D441></a>in him? <a name=3D442></a><br>
<br>
Certainly. <a name=3D443></a><br>
One of them is ready to follow the guidance of the <a name=3D444></a>law? <a
name=3D445></a><br>
How do you mean? <a name=3D446></a><br>
The law would say that to be patient under suffering is best, and that <a
name=3D447></a>we should not give way to impatience, as there is no knowing
whether such <a name=3D448></a>things are good or evil; and nothing is gain=
ed by
impatience; also, because <a name=3D449></a>no human thing is of serious
importance, and grief stands in the way of <a name=3D450></a>that which at =
the
moment is most required. <a name=3D451></a><br>
<br>
What is most required? he asked. <a name=3D452></a><br>
That we should take counsel about what has happened, and when the dice <a
name=3D453></a>have been thrown order our affairs in the way which reason d=
eems
best; <a name=3D454></a>not, like children who have had a fall, keeping hol=
d of
the part struck <a name=3D455></a>and wasting time in setting up a howl, but
always accustoming the soul <a name=3D456></a>forthwith to apply a remedy,
raising up that which is sickly and fallen, <a name=3D457></a>banishing the=
 cry
of sorrow by the healing art. <a name=3D458></a><br>
<br>
Yes, he said, that is the true way of meeting the attacks of <a name=3D459>=
</a>fortune.
<a name=3D460></a><br>
<br>
Yes, I said; and the higher principle is ready to follow this suggestion <a
name=3D461></a>of reason? <a name=3D462></a><br>
<br>
Clearly. <a name=3D463></a><br>
And the other principle, which inclines us to recollection of our troubles =
<a
name=3D464></a>and to lamentation, and can never have enough of them, we ma=
y call
irrational, <a name=3D465></a>useless, and cowardly? <a name=3D466></a><br>
<br>
Indeed, we may. <a name=3D467></a><br>
And does not the latter --I mean the rebellious principle --furnish <a
name=3D468></a>a great variety of materials for imitation? Whereas the wise=
 and
calm temperament, <a name=3D469></a>being always nearly equable, is not eas=
y to
imitate or to appreciate when <a name=3D470></a>imitated, especially at a p=
ublic
festival when a promiscuous crowd is assembled <a name=3D471></a>in a theat=
re.
For the feeling represented is one to which they are <a name=3D472></a>stra=
ngers.
<a name=3D473></a><br>
<br>
Certainly. <a name=3D474></a><br>
Then the imitative poet who aims at being popular is not by nature <a name=
=3D475></a>made,
nor is his art intended, to please or to affect the principle in <a name=3D=
476></a>the
soul; but he will prefer the passionate and fitful temper, which is <a
name=3D477></a>easily imitated? <a name=3D478></a><br>
<br>
Clearly. <a name=3D479></a><br>
And now we may fairly take him and place him by the side of the painter, <a
name=3D480></a>for he is like him in two ways: first, inasmuch as his creat=
ions
have an <a name=3D481></a>inferior degree of truth --in this, I say, he is =
like
him; and he is also <a name=3D482></a>like him in being concerned with an
inferior part of the soul; and therefore <a name=3D483></a>we shall be righ=
t in
refusing to admit him into a well-ordered State, because <a name=3D484></a>=
he
awakens and nourishes and strengthens the feelings and impairs the reason. =
<a
name=3D485></a>As in a city when the evil are permitted to have authority a=
nd the
good <a name=3D486></a>are put out of the way, so in the soul of man, as we
maintain, the imitative <a name=3D487></a>poet implants an evil constitutio=
n, for
he indulges the irrational nature <a name=3D488></a>which has no discernmen=
t of
greater and less, but thinks the same thing <a name=3D489></a>at one time g=
reat
and at another small-he is a manufacturer of images and <a name=3D490></a>i=
s very
far removed from the truth. <a name=3D491></a><br>
<br>
Exactly. <a name=3D492></a><br>
But we have not yet brought forward the heaviest count in our accusation: <a
name=3D493></a>--the power which poetry has of harming even the good (and t=
here
are very <a name=3D494></a>few who are not harmed), is surely an awful thin=
g? <a
name=3D495></a><br>
<br>
Yes, certainly, if the effect is what you say. <a name=3D496></a><br>
Hear and judge: The best of us, as I conceive, when we listen to a <a name=
=3D497></a>passage
of Homer, or one of the tragedians, in which he represents some <a name=3D4=
98></a>pitiful
hero who is drawling out his sorrows in a long oration, or weeping, <a
name=3D499></a>and smiting his breast --the best of us, you know, delight in
giving way <a name=3D500></a>to sympathy, and are in raptures at the excell=
ence
of the poet who stirs <a name=3D501></a>our feelings most. <a name=3D502></=
a><br>
<br>
Yes, of course I know. <a name=3D503></a><br>
But when any sorrow of our own happens to us, then you may observe <a name=
=3D504></a>that
we pride ourselves on the opposite quality --we would fain be quiet <a
name=3D505></a>and patient; this is the manly part, and the other which del=
ighted
us in <a name=3D506></a>the recitation is now deemed to be the part of a wo=
man. <a
name=3D507></a><br>
<br>
Very true, he said. <a name=3D508></a><br>
Now can we be right in praising and admiring another who is doing that <a
name=3D509></a>which any one of us would abominate and be ashamed of in his=
 own <a
name=3D510></a>person? <a name=3D511></a><br>
<br>
No, he said, that is certainly not reasonable. <a name=3D512></a><br>
Nay, I said, quite reasonable from one point of <a name=3D513></a>view. <a
name=3D514></a><br>
What point of view? <a name=3D515></a><br>
If you consider, I said, that when in misfortune we feel a natural <a name=
=3D516></a>hunger
and desire to relieve our sorrow by weeping and lamentation, and <a name=3D=
517></a>that
this feeling which is kept under control in our own calamities is <a name=
=3D518></a>satisfied
and delighted by the poets;-the better nature in each of us, <a name=3D519>=
</a>not
having been sufficiently trained by reason or habit, allows the sympathetic=
 <a
name=3D520></a>element to break loose because the sorrow is another's; and =
the
spectator <a name=3D521></a>fancies that there can be no disgrace to himsel=
f in
praising and pitying <a name=3D522></a>any one who comes telling him what a=
 good
man he is, and making a fuss <a name=3D523></a>about his troubles; he think=
s that
the pleasure is a gain, and why should <a name=3D524></a>he be supercilious=
 and
lose this and the poem too? Few persons ever reflect, <a name=3D525></a>as I
should imagine, that from the evil of other men something of evil <a name=
=3D526></a>is
communicated to themselves. And so the feeling of sorrow which has gathered=
 <a
name=3D527></a>strength at the sight of the misfortunes of others is with
difficulty repressed <a name=3D528></a>in our own. <a name=3D529></a><br>
<br>
How very true! <a name=3D530></a><br>
And does not the same hold also of the ridiculous? There are jests <a name=
=3D531></a>which
you would be ashamed to make yourself, and yet on the comic stage, <a name=
=3D532></a>or
indeed in private, when you hear them, you are greatly amused by them, <a
name=3D533></a>and are not at all disgusted at their unseemliness; --the ca=
se of
pity <a name=3D534></a>is repeated; --there is a principle in human nature =
which
is disposed to <a name=3D535></a>raise a laugh, and this which you once
restrained by reason, because you <a name=3D536></a>were afraid of being th=
ought
a buffoon, is now let out again; and having <a name=3D537></a>stimulated the
risible faculty at the theatre, you are betrayed unconsciously <a name=3D53=
8></a>to
yourself into playing the comic poet at home. <a name=3D539></a><br>
<br>
Quite true, he said. <a name=3D540></a><br>
And the same may be said of lust and anger and all the other affections, <a
name=3D541></a>of desire and pain and pleasure, which are held to be insepa=
rable
from <a name=3D542></a>every action ---in all of them poetry feeds and wate=
rs the
passions instead <a name=3D543></a>of drying them up; she lets them rule,
although they ought to be controlled, <a name=3D544></a>if mankind are ever=
 to
increase in happiness and virtue. <a name=3D545></a><br>
<br>
I cannot deny it. <a name=3D546></a><br>
Therefore, Glaucon, I said, whenever you meet with any of the eulogists <a
name=3D547></a>of Homer declaring that he has been the educator of Hellas, =
and
that he <a name=3D548></a>is profitable for education and for the ordering =
of
human things, and that <a name=3D549></a>you should take him up again and a=
gain
and get to know him and regulate <a name=3D550></a>your whole life accordin=
g to
him, we may love and honour those who say <a name=3D551></a>these things --=
they
are excellent people, as far as their lights extend; <a name=3D552></a>and =
we are
ready to acknowledge that Homer is the greatest of poets and <a name=3D553>=
</a>first
of tragedy writers; but we must remain firm in our conviction that <a name=
=3D554></a>hymns
to the gods and praises of famous men are the only poetry which ought <a
name=3D555></a>to be admitted into our State. For if you go beyond this and=
 allow
the <a name=3D556></a>honeyed muse to enter, either in epic or lyric verse,=
 not
law and the reason <a name=3D557></a>of mankind, which by common consent ha=
ve
ever been deemed best, but pleasure <a name=3D558></a>and pain will be the =
rulers
in our State. <a name=3D559></a><br>
<br>
That is most true, he said. <a name=3D560></a><br>
And now since we have reverted to the subject of poetry, let this our <a
name=3D561></a>defence serve to show the reasonableness of our former judgm=
ent in
sending <a name=3D562></a>away out of our State an art having the tendencies
which we have described; <a name=3D563></a>for reason constrained us. But t=
hat
she may impute to us any harshness <a name=3D564></a>or want of politeness,=
 let
us tell her that there is an ancient quarrel <a name=3D565></a>between phil=
osophy
and poetry; of which there are many proofs, such as <a name=3D566></a>the s=
aying
of 'the yelping hound howling at her lord,' or of one 'mighty <a name=3D567=
></a>in
the vain talk of fools,' and 'the mob of sages circumventing Zeus,' <a
name=3D568></a>and the 'subtle thinkers who are beggars after all'; and the=
re are
innumerable <a name=3D569></a>other signs of ancient enmity between them.
Notwithstanding this, let us <a name=3D570></a>assure our sweet friend and =
the
sister arts of imitation that if she will <a name=3D571></a>only prove her =
title
to exist in a well-ordered State we shall be delighted <a name=3D572></a>to
receive her --we are very conscious of her charms; but we may not on <a
name=3D573></a>that account betray the truth. I dare say, Glaucon, that you=
 are
as much <a name=3D574></a>charmed by her as I am, especially when she appea=
rs in <a
name=3D575></a>Homer? <a name=3D576></a><br>
<br>
Yes, indeed, I am greatly charmed. <a name=3D577></a><br>
Shall I propose, then, that she be allowed to return from exile, but <a
name=3D578></a>upon this condition only --that she make a defence of hersel=
f in
lyrical <a name=3D579></a>or some other metre? <a name=3D580></a><br>
<br>
Certainly. <a name=3D581></a><br>
And we may further grant to those of her defenders who are lovers of <a
name=3D582></a>poetry and yet not poets the permission to speak in prose on=
 her
behalf: <a name=3D583></a>let them show not only that she is pleasant but a=
lso
useful to States and <a name=3D584></a>to human life, and we will listen in=
 a
kindly spirit; for if this can be <a name=3D585></a>proved we shall surely =
be the
gainers --I mean, if there is a use in poetry <a name=3D586></a>as well as a
delight? <a name=3D587></a><br>
<br>
Certainly, he said, we shall the gainers. <a name=3D588></a><br>
If her defence fails, then, my dear friend, like other persons who <a name=
=3D589></a>are
enamoured of something, but put a restraint upon themselves when they <a
name=3D590></a>think their desires are opposed to their interests, so too m=
ust we
after <a name=3D591></a>the manner of lovers give her up, though not withou=
t a
struggle. We too <a name=3D592></a>are inspired by that love of poetry whic=
h the
education of noble States <a name=3D593></a>has implanted in us, and theref=
ore we
would have her appear at her best <a name=3D594></a>and truest; but so long=
 as
she is unable to make good her defence, this <a name=3D595></a>argument of =
ours
shall be a charm to us, which we will repeat to ourselves <a name=3D596></a=
>while
we listen to her strains; that we may not fall away into the childish <a
name=3D597></a>love of her which captivates the many. At all events we are =
well
aware <a name=3D598></a>that poetry being such as we have described is not =
to be
regarded seriously <a name=3D599></a>as attaining to the truth; and he who
listens to her, fearing for the safety <a name=3D600></a>of the city which =
is
within him, should be on his guard against her seductions <a name=3D601></a=
>and
make our words his law.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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